Ludia Forums

Swap in moves **shouldn't go first**

So swap in moves in this game is a bit overpowered if that is the right word to use here,Because in game one of a dino’s stat is speed and speed determines which dino goes first in a battle but here is the problem
Swap in moves they always go first no matter how fast the dino is
For example imagine a standard pvp battle
Player A has a sinoceratops with 108 speed
Player B has a brachiosaurus with 111 speed
Player A switched sinoceratops for secodontosaurus
Player B selected resilient strike with brachiosaurus
Player A swapped secodontosaurus with sinoceratops(which is clearly slower)
the sinoceratops attacks first despite brachiosaurus being faster

And this is why i think swap in moves should be changed,like what if swap in moves also relys heavily on the dino’s speed like from that example i told you earlier what if brachiosaurus attacks sinoceratops with resilient strike first then sino attacks brachiosaurus with the
swap-in

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I think it is like that bc it is a priority

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This move was designed to do a final takedown of the opp dino, it comes with its own risk I feel. But boosts has somewhat skewed the original intention imo.

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One interesting idea, don’t no whether it’s been mentioned before but , instant moves are also a priority move , couldn’t they go before the swap move …

Ikr

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I’ve always think of swap in moves like ambush attack, it always takes the opp by surprise, hence it goes first.
Perhaps the animation shld show the sia dino coming in from behind and attack, rather than in front. Makes more sense since you can’t see attack coming from behind lol.

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Thinking in that way an ambush never goes perfectly every time so you could introduce different percentages of impact, swap in stun doesn’t work 100% every time so why should other swap in moves be different.

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Exactly! Swap in damage moves were ok BEFORE Ludia added boosts to the game. Now they ruin the game. They really need to review this and make adequate changes because the whole game is terrible now. Everything is about swapping in with 2K+ damage, the more dinos with it you have the better for you. So stupid and doesn’t require ANY strategy.

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Stop saying swaps require no strategy. They most certainly do.

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Oh, of course they do… I forgot you are an expert in the rats and rhinos subject. :wink: I really hope Ludia will make some MAJOR changes soon. To me it doesn’t need any strategy and it’s bad. You start with one dino, your opponent leaves 2000+ HP on it and swap into rhino, then they are usually faster so they can make 1 or 2 hits on your next one and then they swap into another rhino or rat. Somehow dealing with Woolly Rhino and even Ceramagnus is easier than with Monolorhino because of all its resistances and also move set, shields breaker and distraction.

at least after using a swap in move the dino won’t be able to swap for a certain turns which is the equiavlent of swap ins having a cooldown
So players won’t just spam them

I have always felt that instant moves should go before a swap-in. If you use instant invincibility and your opponent swaps something in at the same time, your shield should come up before the swap-in attack hits. Moves labeled as priority moves should have priority in all situations. It would allow for some clever predictive gameplay.

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That’s only one part to this 2-sided coin. You fail to see how swappers can put you in a good setup and a specific creature like ornithomimus to start running through a team. Swappers are here and are here to stay. And before you say they are cheap and whatnot, work on creatures that counteract swappers. Majungaboa kills ceramagnus when if swaps in, so don’t tell me there are no good swap punishers, because there are.

And while skill tournaments are heavily influenced by luck, there’s skill involved and one of the biggest pieces is optimizing swappers to their fullest extent compared to your idea of what they are

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Majundaboa is in dire need of a buff to be in a good spot for anything other as a predictive swap-in. Putting niche creatures on your team isn’t supposed to be the answer, isn’t that what everyone was telling me about having Poukaidei on mine?

Swap-ins do NOT require the same kind of strategy that the rest of the game does because it takes away the element of speed from the opposition, and by forcing that handicap it is cheap. The way to fix it is to eliminate that ridiculous aspect of it or start doling countermeasures out to a huge swath of creatures.

How many relevant swap-prevention-resistant creatures are out there to those that can actually prevent swaps? How many of those resistant ones are ones that have a swap-in attack? The nonsense about killing them off before they can be swapped out fails utterly when they’re already immune to being held in place with the health pools some of them have. Switch to a creature that can kill them? Okay, but in a game where you really only have two turns to do much of anything, the response is to lose a full turn by switching and heating a hit and hoping they stick around while your rampage charges up?

The problem is even further exacerbated by boosts and the fact that the swap-in meta means that anything not of the swap variety is at a large disadvantage the moment there are two or more swappers drawn for the opponent.

As the swap-in meta progresses, just watch as cunnings get effectively eliminated. The amount of power being doles out to low-HP creatures going faster than the fastest of them for no sensible reason is just a silly thing to defend.

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Ok, then use something like testacornibus. Swappers aren’t cheap and again can screw you over with a bad draw. They are a double-edged sword and I have been screwed by my swappers many times. There are many different creatures you can use to counter them. Titanoboa, testacornibus, mammolania, and so on.

The swap meta isn’t the reason why they are falling out. It’s because of how strong the resilients are. Gorgotrebax isn’t punished by swappers and punishes them pretty hard. The problem is is that these resilients are becoming stronger and stronger while Ludia just makes these poor creatures like poukendacylus and oviloph.

While that is true for some, they only ones that can really get away best is DC and DCpro. Rhino falls victim to trykosaurus and can get 2-shot easily by the optimal build (and tryko is basically everywhere). Ceramagnus can be pinned by grypolyth. DC in boosted environments can be subject to rend resistance and even being 1-shot in some scenarios.

Again that is false because it can influence how you build your team. Do I want more trappers like titanoboa or do I want some runners to synergize with my swappers.

Finally, the biggest reason why swappers are very dominant right now is because of the lack of more on escape moves. This is Ludia’s fault, but right now there are many ways to work around the swapper issue

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Personally I don’t think SIAs are ridiculous. I don’t have any problems with any of them for the most part, apart from the ones that deal direct damage, which I think are too dominant right now, which makes all of the skill tournaments about swap-in damage (especially stunning strike) and punishing swappers. I don’t ever see anyone complaining about any SIA other than Swap-in Stunning Strike, and sometimes Swap-in Savagery, so I don’t get why this thread is about all of them.

I do think we lack good swap-punishers. And I don’t just mean ones that can defend themselves against swappers, but the ones that are built to execute and set up on swappers that have just been brought out. Without them you’re left to rely almost exclusively on On Escape abilities, which are few and far between, and making them more common could make the situation worse if it isn’t done right.

At the very top of the leaderboard people started running nitro Thors again primarily because it could set up on Monolorhino, which I think shows that there is a bit of a vacuum when it comes to setting up on swap-in-direct-damage creatures.
Boosts are what made that possible though, Thor on its own doesn’t do the job.

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A unique that many people don’t have to counter a slew of creatures from every rarity class is not a good or honest answer. Even Majundaboa was at least an obtainable suggestion, if not efficient.

Making counters substantially more difficult to obtain compared to the creature they’re countering helps nobody but those exploiting the swap early and often.

Citing an APEX as an example of a cunning doing well against swappers is also entirely dishonest in the conversation because most players aren’t going to have it. On top of that you’re being deliberately obtuse if you are suggesting that the swap mechanic isn’t a direct and colossal cause of the failure of Cunnings; two of their primary traits - speed and how health pools - are 100% impacted by the swap metas which negate one and plow through the other. I get that you’re very pro-swap, but come on.

Which are everywhere.

An easily-obtainable and early-boosted epic countered by an annoying-to-create and difficult-to-level unique.

Niche resistance for one, and you’re assuming the DC isn’t also HP-boosted. It only needs to get the cleansing move off once before it can be switched.

There is no scenario where building a team of swappers is equivalent to building any other team type. Those players that don’t have the right trappers or play a swap in themselves are at the mercy of the mind games that the swap meta creates, and invalidates any other synergy they’ve attempted to create.

The biggest reason why swappers are very dominant right now is because they’re EASY to obtain and they supercede all other moves when used. It’s a lesser reason that “on escape” moves are unavailable now, and if “on escape” moves are to be useful they need to be put onto creatures that aren’t useful ONLY as a trapper.

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I was giving examples. Every rarity class has a creature that can punish swapping with some lower rarities being able to compete thanks to this ability.

Dishonest. It’s an example and it’s true. You can’t swap into it after turn 1 really because evasion is up and it is resistant to rend and has stun immunity, so I’d say it discourages them pretty well, wouldn’t you? Also, look at geminititan. Look at mammolania. Look at trykosaurus. Look at dioraja. Look at hadros lux. Resilience resilience resilience. Resilience is dominant because of how much it does. Even in specific rarities look at resilience. Sarco, entelochops, diplodocus, titanoboa, ankylodicurius. Commons are the same way. heck, the 3 best head to head commons are all resilient. Glyptodon actually kills over 50% of creatures in the game, including gorgotrebax and erlidominus. It’s not the swappers, but the massive strength of resilients. Again citing glyptodon, when put up with fierce creatures, it’s not going to fall like velociraptor against carbonemyes. Acrocanthosaurus just survives on 800 hp. Resilients are on par in strength but their abilities are just better. THAT is why cunnings are struggling

Easily obtainable??? You do realize it’s exclusive. heck I don’t even have SINO maxed up and you’re saying rhino is easy to obtain?? And there I was actually referring to MONOLOrhino, which also gets 2-shot.

If you are referring to a FULL team of swappers, that’s a bad team. But I can win many battles as swaps are pretty easy to predict and I will always use something like sarcorixis, dio, titanoboa gen 2, and so on to predict these swaps, so they aren’t needed always.

Ones a raid, one is an exclusive epic, the other is a unique with said exclusive, one is a legendary that is pretty easy to get and one is a unique with said legendary.

Doesn’t Group Shield stop that from happening? What are the optimal builds like up there?

Tryko should shoot for a bunch of attack, 116 speed, and the rest in hp. I an trying to get around 2700-2800 attack on mine