Ludia Forums

Swap in Stunning Strike

I’ve mentioned this before in many threads: swap in stunning strike is the most meta defining ability in the game, across all rarities, and it’s too strong. The ability works extremely well against cunning creature’s low hp pools, goes before dodge and distraction can activate, doesn’t trigger rend resistance, bypasses armor, and against often slower resilient and fierce creatures has a 66% chance to stun before then allowing the swapper to use another move. It’s too much on one move. My proposal is simple: split swap in stunning strike and armor piercing strike. The new swap in stunning strike (ceratopsians) has 75% stun chance and DOES NOT pierce armor. The new swap in armor piercing strike (rhinos) has NO stun but pierces armor. The split hopefully removes some of the irritating stun RNG while also balancing the abilities to be better countered and played around.


I would also like to see the damage reduced. This game use to be about strategy, setting someone up for the next dino in. All of that is out the window now because your opponent can swap, do as much damage as a typical move and if it stuns cost you nothing.

The new swap in stunning strike (ceratopsians) has 75% stun chance and DOES NOT pierce armor.

Still think it doesn’t change much, I’d recommend changing them to headbutt. Low health fast creatures like the raptors are the biggest victims in the swap meta. Removing armor piercing doesnt do anything about them

I prefer swap-in headbutt, since it does half dmg.


I’m fine with that change. The only problem is that it would be even more annoying when you don’t get the stun against armored creatures because you would do even less damage.

Yea so the intended solution is to make ceratopsians struggle more against armored targets while retaining the ability to have swap in (potentially for free via stun). I do wonder if headbutt and not going through armor is too strong of a nerf to the class however…seeing as all non ceramagnus ceratopsians don’t have crazy damage output. As for the armor piercing strike on rhinos, do you (and others) think that would make sure rhino remains viable without being extremely powerful (especially in skill)?

Honestly the best solution is to let swap in moves have last priority, so regular moves go before it first(allowing distraction or a shield to be applied)

I disagree pretty hard with that: swap in distraction shields etc going first is the entire reason they work. The issue imo is that swap in stun works against every class of creature, can’t be predicted the first time, and if it stuns enables a free switch. Nerfing the entire class of moves and abilities because of one problem child is not a good solution.

I will give stunners their old movesets And remove swap in whatever attack abilities.

Then just swap in attacks. Why should sniping a creature with no warning whatsoever be fair in a match? Such swap in attacks have caused the Cunning Class to basically become useless in tourneys and arena because they can just be sniped by one big Rhino or Cera. If those attacks go after regular moves, it could help the cunning class a lot

Nerfing the resilient moves/ buffing the cunning moves would help the cunnings. Nerfing swap is not the answer, SIAs are fine as a whole.

I agree it would help cunning a lot to do that but ultimately if swap in strikes are low damage or have counters (see rend resistance) that’s a better solution than changing the whole mechanic. As for resilient stuff…imo resilient strike should be way more rare so cunning’s can still use dodge and distraction but whatever solution is done it needs to address that resilient creatures dominate the meta.

Swap in abilities themselves are interesting…except for swap in stunning strike. It’s too “all in one”, you can stun (which is already a swap in ability with NO damage), and do a full armor piercing strike’s worth of damage without your opponent being able to dodge distract shield or act. It’s too much on one move and it needs to be split up into armor piercing strike and stunning strike or nerfed in some other way (I’m happy to hear other suggestions)


I don’t see why it can’t be both; both resilient moves and swap in stunning strike are dominant for different reasons. I agree that most swap in attacks are fine, but the ones that do damage (especially SISS) need some tuning, because it’s the only damage in the game (and priority damage, to boot) that you can’t accurately anticipate.

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happy cake day @Mudkipz ! :cake:


Thanks! I didn’t even realize that it was :sweat_smile:


Happy Cake Day :partying_face:


Thank you!!!


Get rid of swap resistance would help a good bit. Whats the point in having grypolyth etc if they can just run off anyway

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I think the best way is for Priority moves to only go before swaps and not allow people who are stunned themselves to swap out to simple things that would make swaps more level.