The Awkward Apexes

Not all Apex are truly Apex. Hadros Lux, Ceramagnus, and even Haast Maximus are glaringly outclassed by their other Apex combatants. It seems like each Apex has their own trademark move or feature about them that stands out. How do we get them back into the same plane as their Apex counterparts? I have a few ideas.

Hadros Lux: This apex doesn’t have a “defining” characteristic about it. It’s a beefy hadrosaur that can heal. Ok? well why doesn’t Ludia ride on that notion and give it like a minor healing aspect in its counter as well? I’m not sure Decelerating Impact was the proper counter course to combat the “double rampage” problem, perhaps some sort of Rejuvenating Impact?

Ceramagnus: With Magnus supposed to be a wrecking ball freight train, I imagine it being on an oppressive onslaught. I think Switching “Precise Rampage” to something more along the lines of “Precise Piercing Rampage”, where it had an Armor Piercing component, that would certainly bring some more bang to its buck. Also, I think Magnus’ damage nerf was VERY punishing on the Apex, especially considering we have atleast 2 UNIQUE swap-in dinos that heavily outclass its’ swap-in capabilities (how does that make any sense??) bringing the 1300 base damage to something like 1475 or even 1500 would be more than justifiable

Haast Maximus: I think Haast’s kit fits what its objective is, an evasive high speed threat, but to give it a contending threat I think adding an “Obstruction” element to it (reference Phorex’s Stunning Obstruction) giving it a base damage attack upon enemy trying to swap out. Give this APEX Bird a chance to lock down its prey

Gorgotrebax (Honorable Mention): It’s kit and setup is overall fine, but its base speed is hilariously underwhelming for a pure cunning creature. Not sure how a not-beefy quadriped creature built like Arctops & Inostrancevia (both with 130 speed) logically was slow enough for the Pre-historic equivalent of a Wolverine. Wolverine’s are VERY quick creatures. Trebax should more than justifiably be sitting on a base 121 speed as opposed to 113.

Curious as to what you all think of these proposed modifications.

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I want Gorgo to have the same speed as Inostherium. Even the 10% speed up move doesn’t make it faster than most other creatures in this part of the arena. Increasing its 10% speed-up to 50% would also help.
I also wouldn’t mind it being the first creature to have a “Cautious Group Impact” to be a flock/herd destroyer as a revenge move and keeping it precise as it is now.

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I always thought of Haast as a buffer/speed demon. Giving it reduced damage and crit chance immunity would help it seeing that it doesn’t even have the best damage anyway. Also IMO Ravenous Rampage’s delay and cool-down should be swapped.

I think for the sake of making Trebax not “OP” as far as speed goes I’m sure that’s what the intent of lowering its’ speed was for, but 113 is soo hilariously lower than what it should be. IDEALLY a 119-123 would be a realistic expectation

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yep agree with everything you have said hence why they are all on the shelf and never used :stuck_out_tongue: have not even leveled hadro or cera to 30 and haast have the dna…not worth the effort
trebax should be faster from the start i mean look at it…why is it so slow base speed…its dumb (not that i use it :stuck_out_tongue:

With Hadros, they could give it Armor, reduce the speed to 106, and change out a couple moves. Hadrosaurs are normally great raid healers, and currently we dont have a good Apex healer. Heck Parasaurolophus Gen 1 is better at healing that Hadros Lux. Now I do think that it should still be a good offensive unit, it’s what makes it different from other Hadrosaurs. Possible changes:
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Ceramag I dont really think needs a Piercing Ability, it has that with SISS and would help more against resilients which it doesnt need. I’d say all it needs is a revert (besides the crit) and turn SISS to SIHB and remove/nerf the swap ins from Parathops and Albertocevia (where did those come from and WHY ARE THEY SO STRONG?). If you really wanted to change something, I’d trade out Acute Stun for maybe a group stunning move or a style of Dig In that’s different. Unsure which would be better though.

For Haast, it does obstruct, but a hit On Escape would help out too. For it’s moveset, I’d change Piercing Screech to have a cooldown of 2, have Speed last for 2 turns, and Crit Increase buffed up to 50%. Also a small speed increase to 130. It has actually really strong stats for a cunning.

Gorgo I agree with, but the other issue is that Ref does it’s job better as of now. More bulk, same damage and crit chance, along with much better speed. The resistances are only slightly worse, but a lot of the ones that are worse either A: by a small amount (25%) or B: Not really too needed. Most of the creatures with Pin are Fierce, and Ref demolishes Fierce. They do practically the same job, and even in Raids, Ref is just better with SD. Though with the 3 turn cooldown it hurt. Overall they just do such a similar job and Ref simply does it better. I wouldnt mind Gorgo actually going to the Fierce Side and do a complete rework on him (he does have the stats for it) as Mortem is currently the only pure Fierce Apex we have (Imperato is Fierce Resilient given he has 4 MOVES WITH RESILIENT ELEMENTS IN THEM).

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Ceramagnus


Hadros Lux

Haast Maximus

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Primal charge doesnt go through armour but it does break shield.

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My Own Cera Buff
Will post the other 2 later

Bax needs just as much a buff as the others mentioned to be viable in this meta. Ref, Hydra, Albertocevia and the newer flocks just do its job so much better.

Simply giving it 130 speed won’t help much. It needs some way to swap in or an on-escape move at least to compete and probably a priority attack like everything else.

This is my idea on how to make bax relevant:

My reworks for the lacking apexes. Some of them are a bit odd, but I think they’re good enough improvements for them to see much more endgame usege.

Hadros Lux is built as a tank capable of dealing huge damage in one powerful hit along with a good heal move to attack once more. Instead of giving Hadros armor, I gave it several other ways of increasing its overall bulk. It has sauropod-level health, higher attack to heal more, and a new swap in, giving it a unique move. It’s also been given a group heal along with group damage for flock busting and potential raid viability. Group Superiority has been added to retain its speed decrease.

Haast Maximus is a relatively stally trapper that focuses all of its damage on one big priority hit before recharging. This rework allows it to do just that, but much more effectively. Piercing Screech has been completely revamped for better raid and stall potential, and Haast’s speed has been cranked up to the max, like how Mortem has the highest possible damage. This allows it to outspeed fast cunnings and decelerating tanks that can greatly hinder its chances at getting its big attack off. Fearless Obstruction has replaced Obstruction To Flight as a much better method of locking the foe in place, better allowing it to put Ravenous Rampage to use.

This Ceramagnus rework is an odd one, and I don’t know how to feel about it. Its stats are left unchanged, preventing it from seeing its glory days of 1500 swap in damage, but its swap in is much more powerful. On secure, it’s essentially a Swap In Stunning Strike that breaks shields, while it instead gives shields in the threatened state. Instant Stunning Dig In replaces Acute Stun, making for a very safe heal option that can really mess with creatures unlucky enough to get stunned. Distract resistance has also been added to better counter cunnings.

The least amount of changes out of the 4, Gorgotrebax really just needs some speed. However it’s also been given some cool unique moves, since it didn’t get any unlike most of the other apexes. Cold Front is a good stalling option and makes for nice protection in raids, while Frost Bite is a simple yet effective On Escape to keep foes locked in place.