Ludia Forums

The Cunning Conundrum

I think the most frustrating thing happening with the boost shuffle for the adjustment to the Apex/Swap meta is deciding what to do for your cunnings.

One one hand you want to give them more HP to survive swappers that are now coming from up to 4 relevant creatures in Ceramagnus, Monolorhino, Dracoceratops, and Dracoceratosaurus, sometimes the odd Wooly Rhino or Monostegotops.

But on the other hand, where you’d expect to sacrifice some speed, you still run into the serious new issue of Nitro Mortems, where the worst thing is to be one shot without at least getting one hit on it, before the inevitable Cleansing Impact (which is another huge issue entirely).

All of this while there’s already the ever-present speed war between cunnings themselves, where just one tier could turn the tide of a match or definitively decide it.

This makes the shuffle stressful because boosting is relative to your current arena, so it’s difficult to invest proactively, as you get beat by builds that have reached their ceiling and thus terrorize their plateau, halting your progression as well.

In other words, we need shuffles to happen way more than once a year to truly evolve with the game rather than be stuck with choices that were only good at the time.


Multiple things could be done to make them viable and lessen the need for these boost shuffles, but half of it seems to be in effect already - on reslilents (who decidedly don’t need any of this, since their secondary talent should be armor).

  1. Increase the speed, so that cunnings are naturally much faster
  2. Make cunnings the main recipient of ‘On Escape’ moves (currently, this role belongs to resilient, with the exception of No Escape, which belongs to fierce). Considering that cunnings are speedy, it makes more sense that one of them would strike an opponent before they can fully leave.
  3. Give cunnings more ‘instant moves’ (guess who has the most instant moves? Yes! Resilient!)
  4. Buff cunnings where the health is concerned (again). Things like Morty mean distraction is going to be useless before long. This is my least preferred method, though.

New resistance to swap in strikes would be sweet if we didn’t get like an on escape dodge or something


On top of all that, I think dodge should be guaranteed. Resilient moves are omnipresent and cleansing moves on fierce creatures hit like a truck. I can’t imagine dodge being as problematic as in 1.14.


All facts.

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  1. Not really need but wouldn’t be a bad idea 150 should be enough.

  2. That’s is a good idea but I don’t think they should have the most especially since they are fast and go first sometimes a swap in is needed especially if you don’t have a resilient to deal with them.

  3. More instant moves is very problematic since that just makes cunnings better at counter cunnings. Example phorasaura and Orion. However still not a bad idea just need to regulate carefully

  4. More health doesn’t help at all, and it gives Ludia more of an excuse for them to make high attack. It also with boosts lead to 6 or even 7k health speedsters. It’s better to give them more ways to midi gate damage. Or have moves that with back ups but are also not too powerful. Ex: devious strike.

Although this is very much a problem with not only boosts but the meta.

(@Ned mind just taking notes from this topic and send feed back that be great.)

Now I’m gonna use my team as an example

Now as you can see my team has three cunnings or cunning+whatever. Now here are each one individually
Smilonemys: lvl 25: 5 hp, 10 Att, 10 sp; 25 total.

Utarinex: lvl 28: 6 hp, 6 att, 11 sp; 23 total, 5 tiers left.

Magnapyritator: lvl 28: 5 hp, 8 att, 11sp; 24 total, 4 tiers left.

Now here is the thing, basically all of my boosts are on just these three creatures with the only other one boosted is tryko. Now I think you know the reason why, it cause speedsters and cunning’s need the most boosted to be invest of any class. The only thing they have as an advantage when battling normally is speed. But see as the main tag for boosts said, “have you ever wanted a trex as fast as a velociraptor?” So with that the thin net that held cunnings from being useless failed and was crushed. And since then cunnings and speedsters have sucked no matter what meta they have been in with a few exemptions.

Personal I would just get rid of speed boost but as an ogre said

Plus the community wouldn’t allow it with their nitro Thors, super maximas, trykos, and so on and so forth. There is also making it .25 instead 1 point or 1 point speed instead of two etc, etc many have come up with different solutions and suggestions.

However it’s up to Ludia to fix this. In the meantime we just got to hang in there.


Love your analysis. May I ask how many trophies you’re at currently?


Currently bouncing between 5,100 and 5,400 thanks to the new matchmaking system

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Noted, Funtime_dino!

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Older thread but I think the best fix is to treat swaps like instant abilities and go on the speed of the Dino’s and not Before anything happens. Because the current meta is making a lot of dino’s just obsolete.

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That would certainly make swapping more situational, rather than risk free almost all of the time.

Yeah So instead of it going at the beginning of the turn before any abilities are active treat it as an instant move so if the dino is faster and they have an instant they get a chance to go before the swap. I think it the change would make the Swaps not so OP.