Ludia Forums

The Stun is a double stun for the counter. It's fair?

#1

When someone uses a stun and manages to stun, the consequence for the dino who receives the blow is that he loses a turn what is fair.

When a dino who has a counter receives a stun, he loses one turn but stops making his counter two turns.

Do you consider that this is fair?

The Diorajasour, for example, is a very weak dino unique that its only power is the counter and that power loses it completely not a turn if not two turns when it faces a stunner.

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#2

Then switch him out.

What’s the question?
Stuns are apart of the game. Stunning is to stop counter attack dinos from attacking and whatever else.
Yes, it is completely fair, now stop trying to nerf things because it’s a good counter to those dinos. Everything has counters.

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#3

No he doesn’t. Your game might be broken, or it could be a visual glitch.

#4

OP’s point is fair. Counter dinos would lose actual counter when they get stunned and loses next turn and next turn’s counter as well. And to my understanding, OP might not asking for any nerf here, but asking for some justification to have the second counter work, which is fair.

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#5

Yea , I think the counter should go first and then get stunned. Maybe it’s more fair

#6

I try to give an example with the use of Diorajasour’s instant invencibility against a faster opponent
TURN 1
Dioraja uses instant invencibility
Rival hits (but does not hurt)
Dioraja makes counter
TURN 2
Rival hits
Dioraja does counter and hits

In normal development Dioraja has hit 1 time and has done counter 2 times.

The development if the opponent does stun is
TURN 1
Dioraja uses instant invencibility
Rival hits (but does not hurt) and stun
Dioraja is stunned and does not counter
TURN 2
Rival hits
Dioraja does not hit and does not stun

Result: Dioraja has lost a hit (that’s logical) but has lost two counter … and that’s what I’m not sure if it’s fair or not.

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#7

The stun affects the player for a Round, not a number of moves or attacks, and it’s fair… annoying, but fair.

If you’re opponent goes first and stuns you then you’re stunned for the remainder of the Round.

If you’re opponent goes second stunning you then you are unable to counter-attack and are stunned for the next Round. This is the only place where the stun might not be completely fair as you actually lose two counter attacks and one attack. You should probably be unstunned once you’re opponent makes its next non-stunning attack. But this is the way it is so I’ll either work with it or use different dino’s.

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#8

Of course, things work as they work and I adapt to them. I do not like nerfs or the opposite, I just asked if it was fair :slight_smile:

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#9

No, it’s completely unfair and is why I (and I would guess most) people don’t run more counter-attackers. When a regular dino is stunned, they lose 1 turn, but a counter-attacker loses 1.5

I reported this as a bug back a while ago, but alas, never got any traction on the issue:

It really is too bad, because there are many dinos out there that would be much more viable if the stun would only take away one counter-attack.

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#10

I agreed that in that particular situation that it may not be completely fair. I think that basically once stunned you should be unstunned following the opponent’s next non-stunning move/attack.

So I.e. in your situation on “Turn 2” you wouldn’t get to pick a move/attack, but as soon as your Rival’s move/attack was executed, as long as it wasn’t another successful stun attack, you would no longer be stunned and you would counter-attack.

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#11

They should buff dio’s stats. The counter attack passive now can only be considered as ‘nice to have’, so its stats shouldn’t be lowered due to this passive ability. I’d say with the meta right now, he should at least have around 4800 HP, 1000 ATK, and 110 SPD and remove its swap in ferocity for the stats increase to be considered useful.

#12

This happens with Tryko as well. I think it’s because you are using a priority move. I don’t know if it’s a glitch per se, but the way priority moves are set up. I do think you should be able to hit back after the opponent hits you the 2nd time though.

#13

Just a note that it happens with any stun move, not just a priority one. The stun just has to be successful and the counter-attacker will miss the next two counters.

With what you’re describing w/ Tryko, I think it’s a bit harder to track, but it basically goes:

Round 1:
*Tryko ID’s
*Opponent stuns, Tryko does not counter

Round 2:
*Opponent (faster or slower doesn’t matter) attacks
*Tryko takes the hit, but again does not counter

Here’s my example from that post without a priority move:

#14

I see nothing unfair with this. If you swap in with a normal Dino, you eat a hit without giving one back. With a counter Dino you get that “free” hit. On a stun the mechanics makes you loose a hit. Feels fair to me.

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#15

You say the mechanics make you lose a hit, this is true, but it shouldn’t really make you lose a counter, hit, counter. It should make you lose counter, hit, but then allow the 2nd counter. That is what is unfair.

It’s not really bothered me to be honest, but I do notice it every time.

Guess what, they changed something similar in relation to Indominus in 1.6. Lets look at this…

Indominus cloaks, Amarg hits (doesn’t matter if cloak fails or not as not relevant). Armarg puts up invincible shield, Indominus strikes, then… this is the change now… Indominus is no longer cloaked for the counter attack by Armag even thought it is still that turn.

This is what should happen with stun on a counter attacker too. But currently A counter-attacker gets hit with a stun, when stunned it results in the dino unable to counter-attack that stun move, and then also is unable to take its own move next turn. On the next turn the dino gets hit, this is where the stun should be ended and the counter-attack allowed to happen, just like the Indominus cloak no longer remains allowing the counter-attack to hit it.

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#16

Yeah, I notice that too, there’s a bullet about it in the 1.6 release notes:

#17

To answer your question: yes its fair.
Why is this even a topic? Stunning is a mechanic. If you were hit very hard, I bet you wouldn’t immediately stand up.
Also, if you’re faster than the opponent doing the stun, you get stunned for 2 turns (losing attack and next attack).
So doing instant invincibility when you know hes gonna stun you is a bad idea.

#18

I would agree it’s fair if the damage output of a counter-attacking dino was on par with those that not, but since they rely on the counter attack for up to half their damage, it’s a severe handicap, IMO.

If my Dio loses the second counter, that’s 817 points of damage that would have been given if all his damage was up front. End result more often than not is he’s cannon fodder.

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#19

Well, you shouldn’t be able to counter attack when you’re stunned. That’s the point of a stun. I understand what you’re saying, but that’s how counter attacks work. It’s like saying you should get to do a counter attack when someone uses Regen. You miss that counter attack too, right? So why not just give you a free hit when they heal, or do Invincibility?

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#20

Stunners are a natural counter to counter attackers so i dont have an issue with counter attackers… like @TheMaxx said there are certain moves that are used to avoid counter attack damage… like what he mentioned or even rtc…

The real issue is most counter attackers not names tryko perform poorly in the current meta due to low health pools and there need to take damage to dish out there full potential. Tryko has one of the strongest defensive kits of all counter attackers yet also has the ability to dish out a ton of damage. Then you have something like toura whos own kit hurts his damage output because the target is stunned or toura ran