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This tournament shows how horrible this "class system" is

If you get the wrong match up, there’s simply NO WAY to win. It’s as simple as that. I know most skill tourneys depend a lot on team selection… but this one, man… It’s absurd!

Cunning creatures are PATHETIC, but I feel like I have to use at least one or two because of the Lions and Andrews… But of course, every time I get it (or them) selected, I find myself in a sea of Doedis, Elasmos and snakes… Then I bench them, Andrews and Lions show up to destroy the resilients (or my own Andrew and Lion, since I never win speedties, especially now with these stupid lags).

This class system seriously need some improvements…

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Agree, cunning are wayy underpower, you have a cunning as starter ok then eat my swap in resilient or my 50% armor doedi, some cunning even too slow (dilophosaur).

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Dilopho and Proceratosaur were good options for Rare tourneys, now forget it… Andrew is faster (same speed as Procera, which is the same as being faster for me)… Cunning that can’t go first against a Fierce is a freaking joke.

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Skill tournaments become to dependant on RNG with 2.0. What you draw is to important in these tournaments. Stopped counting themed draws of all resilients or all fierce and opponents having perfect counters.

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This lag is killing everything else for me right now. Why they haven’t fixed it yet is beyond me.

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this is honestly the worst the meta is, like there are two metas, crazy right. resilient hasn gone away and now there are swap in teams. i remember when people were complaining about indo g2, id rever have that meta right now. like seriously, at least indo g2 could be countered with decel

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The “class system” is just labels - dinos in each class archetype have always existed, and have always countered one another in the same way. So I don’t think the “class system” is at fault. If anything, the labels just help you notice patterns of certain dinos being underpowered or overpowered. What I don’t like is how ludia reworked a lot of dinos that would have been multi-class to be a single class in 2.0. They could have easily added class labels without these changes (for example, Kentrosaurus could have kept Instant distraction and been a cunning-resilient). And then you have nerfs to some of the best cunnings (yoshi, Indo g2) at the same time, and the introduction of the incredible resilient attacks. These are all specific problems you can point to, but it’s not as simple as saying the “class system” is to blame.

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But all that came with the “class system”. It’s no coincidence and it’s all connected. The lack of resources to face an opposing “class”… And very few creatures, if any, could destroy a whole team of the same rarity like some do now.

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Yoshi needed that nerf. It had way too many hit points to go with its speed and insane damage output while being immune to everything

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Those nerfs happened with resilient moves becoming a thing and evasion becoming ridiculously weak. We went from having few counters to evasion users to now having tons of creatures with literally EVERY move in their moveset being precise… That alone would have been enough to severely weaken Proce and Indo2, but then they also weakened their moves and stats… Once again Ludia showing that they have no clue of how to balance things.

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I agree there, I’m just pointing to some reasons why cunnings feel weaker now than before. Ludia may have gone a bit overboard, but some level of nerf was warranted.

Cunnings are worthless unless they match up against lion Andrew or spino

Thats not enough to say that they’re bad though. If a cunning is bad against resilients but good against fierce, isn’t that the class triangle working as intended?

The class system has made tournaments insufferable.

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I still wouldn’t call that the class system though. Like I said, all of the other changes could have happened compared independently of the class labels. In fact, as far as I can tell, the 2.0 patch notes make no mention of adding a “class system” - it was always in the game, this was just when they chose to label classes, and to rebalance the classes at the same time. On the contrary, the creature updates actually mention some classes changing (e.g. Rixis changing from wild card to resilient), implying that classes existed before 2.0, and that creatures were already being designed around class archetypes (at least internally). Now I wouldn’t say they did a good job of rebalancing, but this rebalancing of the class system is not the class system itself. I could easily go back to the 1.14 dinos and assign all of them to a class without changing anything about them. It just depends on how you define the class system I guess, and I define it by the existence of class labels (which were added in 2.0), certain classes being associated with certain effects, and certain effects countering certain class archetypes (of which the later two have always been in the game). The only debatable point is having class-based moves, but of these only the resilient attacks are currently overpowered.

We just have to be very careful about how we state our grievances is all I’m saying. If we say “get rid of the class system”, ludia might choose just to remove the class labels, rename class moves and change nothing else - none of these problems would actually get solved.

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Not being an official label is exactly why I wrote “class system” in quotes. I know it’s not official, but it’s there. Everyone knows it, basically everyone calls it like that.

Yes, we’ve always had creatures that could be labeled this way, but again, some changes have clearly been made based on these classifications since they became a thing… Like creatures having a full moveset of their “class” and, as I said, utterly destroying not one opponent, but two, two and a half, maybe all…

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Also, I’m talking about tournaments, so same rarity, same level situation… It’s a whole different ball game when we add different rarities, levels and boosts.

I still think the class rebalancing isn’t the same as the class system itself, even if it’s not an official term: we know dinos had classes before 2.0 which got rebalanced in 2.0, and you can’t change or rebalance something that didn’t already exist. However, I definitely agree that there’s been too much homogenzation of classes since 2.0, but overall I don’t have a problem with the class system itself (in terms of certain classes possessing certain abilities and being weak to certain debuffs). I think if you were to assign a class to all the 1.14 dinos, you would find a lot more hybrid-classes and wildcards, showing significantly more ability diversity, and not as much strict single-class designations. I’d like to see a lot more of that today. Let Utarinex have a slowing move, let Miragaia have an armor piercing counter (or maybe not), etc.

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Maybe yes… That’s exactly it. I miss Miragaia’s counter (even though that thing pissed me off)… I miss Rinex and Utasino’s slowing basic move (something so simple, but that gave them more versatility and could decide a match when used properly)… Among many other small changes simply because it wasn’t the right “class move”…

But to sum up, again, the main problem is some creatures being TOO GOOD against others… And I blame 3 things that cause that: swap in damage, resilient moves and No/On Escape abilities… This last one should be something to be used to avoid the swap ins, and in fact it does sometimes, but they create a whole new collection of problems that I personaly hate… The worst of them is not allowing us to swap out in a speedtie situation, which is absurdly unfair.

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I honestly have no problem with on escape buffs(tho we have very few of them as of now), as instead of fully disabling swaps or punishing the creature thats about to swap out, it punishes the creature thats about to swap in and blocks the swap in (i’m talking about mainly dust cloud here).