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Thoughts on changes that could level the playing field for all creature classes and shift slightly from the swap meta

I have been playing since the game dropped and notice that Ludia tends to over do corrections then sort of back pedal from there. If the gamepress article is true, I believe they are about to make the same mistake with the resilient moves. People don’t actually have an issue with the resilient move, They have a problem with their teams lacking hitpoints because they put everything into speed instead of HP. The 2.0 update stated that each class of creature will benefit from different boosts allocations. This was so that you can have counters to each class. If exclusive resilient creatures were the issue, then low level players would be running resilient commons/rare/epic non hybrids. The issue is countering the big super hybrids like Tryko and Dior. Both of which are 2/3 resilient DNA. This unable to counter is solely due to over use of the speed boosts. So I had some thoughts on how to bring the classes closer to a level playing field.

  1. Get rid of or decrease the number of speed boosts that can be used. By removing the speed boosts, we can allocate proper boost technique to hitpoints and attack. or to something different.

  2. Bring in boosting resistances instead. Be able to allocate a maximum of 50% increase to each individual resistance, stopping at 100%. This will bring about a bunch of different combinations to the different dinos. 25% dmg reduction resist can be boosted to 75% resistance. 50% to 100%, 0% to 50%

  3. Evasive moves if successful dodge take no damage. Tier the dodge percent chance based on the move. As long as cunning creatures can always take damage, they will never be able to compete, even with fierce creatures.

  4. Resilient strike and maybe Impact lose the definite hit. Keep the slowing effect to get in front of a cunning creature but don’t guarantee the hit. Resilient Rampage keeps this effect.

I think the swap in meta is probably the worst meta we have had. While I am on board for swap in moves and attacks, there need to be real counters to them as well.

  1. there needs to be more creatures with on escape moves, whether attacks, dodges, distractions, stun, no escape.

  2. Priority lockdown negates swap prevention immunity. With creatures that have this move already having no escape, it needs to have a special effect or be gone. I personally like the idea of the move overriding swap prevent resistance or immunity. The other option is that you cannot swap while stunned. The effects can still be cleansed away, which works for draco. I think this idea will make the most people mad.

Edit: 3) priority moves go ahead of swap in abilities. For example Thor instant charges a draco and stuns it preventing the savagery damage.

What do y’all think of these ideas? I know there will be some people against it, but i think some form of these can bring more balance to all the creatures.

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I actually like some of these ideas. I like the resilient strike and impact losing the definite attack even the rampage but come up with a resilient definite moves for all 3 attack levels. I think the resilients still need speed control. I have always thought speed boost should be +1 speed for each boost not +2.

I’m not sure about being able to changes resistances. Being able to pump up a gem or skoona with 100% resistance to rend or DOT could really make a mess.

If a creature is stunned it shouldn’t be able to swap, period. I like this idea.

A swap prevention move should certainly negate a creature that can normally swap out, making it locked in like any other.

No creature should be able to guarantee hitting through evasive or cloak moves. This was a ridiculous addition and made so many creatures unusable. But evasive avoiding any damage at all is even more crazy. I hated the Monomimus meta.

Speed boosts are fine, they eliminate speed ties.

Boost resistance is unnecessary.

2 Likes

Null moves remove evasive and cloak and there are several excellent creatures with null now, I can even see a few (FEW) moves having precise but they have done so much to remove strategies from the game and the decision to make dodge useless was 2nd only to the proliferation of swap in damage as far as egregious missteps. Swapping use to be a risk reward, now it’s reward reward and the sake is true with evasion

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Dodge absolutely needs to be more consistent. I wouldn’t take it to dodging 100% of damage, but rather have “unsuccessful” dodges still dodge some damage (like 75% chance to dodge 66.6% of damage, 25% chance to dodge 33.4% of damage). That, and to help cunnings compete, just generally buff their HP across the board: they seem to be a step below everything else.

7 Likes

In your tryko example at the start Tyko beats a fierce simply because he can slow them and then rampage. The change to resilient would fix that. As he currently stands he wrecks cunnings, fierce and resilient.

I’d honestly take it a little further. Rather than dodge 100% damage, I’d rather there be a 100% chance to Dodge 66.7/50/whatever percent damage.

There’s absolutely no reason why a Mortem should be able to take down an Erlidominus or anything else that can dodge and distract, and I’m honestly tired of the RNG making that decision when it matters.

There’s plenty of abilities that can remove Cloak and Dodge, so there’s no reason why a Fierce Impact or Rampage should be able to bypass it at all.

5 Likes

Then dodge is just a strictly better version of a shield (or a better shield, if 50%). Although there’s definitely an argument for that, I’d like to maintain some of the chance involved in the original: so sometimes it’s better than a shield, and other times it’s worse. RNG isn’t great, but at least we can reduce the gap in strength between a successful and unsuccessful dodge, while still keeping things interesting.

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Tryko ,2/3 resilient and 1/3 fierce, should be able to defeat cunnings and fierce creatures as its a cross between the two classes. That being said, Thor can dominate tryko, even with being slowed thanks to its instant charge and 0 stun resistance. I can’t remember the last time tryko shook off a charge. Maxima and gemini can make pretty short work of tryko too. Cunnings can cause issues for tryko if the resilient move is in cooldown. Tryko was suppose to be tough, being the only hybrid made from 3 epic creatures.

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I guess, I don’t understand why a successful dodge should not be rewarded with no damage taken. i see it as a swing and a miss in baseball. unless they introduce area of effect moves, which in a way you could make group attacks do partial damage on a dodge. With precise/definite/nullify moves are everywhere now. so there are plenty of counters to evasion now, that would bring some strategy back to the game. But a full damage boosted mortem doing 2400 damage on a successful dodge on a rampage is unnecessary. I know people hated the monomimus, procerathamimus, indoraptor dodge meta, but back then, really only magna could consistently beat them. Thanks to the over abundance of guaranteed hits now, there is no reason a fierce can’t have difficulty fighting its supposed to be counter.

It’s mostly just because dinos would put up a dodge and hold on for several turns on 1 health with many successive dodges, so some damage should be taken. Dodge originally worked like how you proposed it should, but Ludia changed it to what it is now precisely because of what I said above. It wouldn’t be quite as bad now with all the dodge counters out there, but take it from me that it isn’t fun to play against at all. But when they reduced the reward for a successful dodge, they didn’t reduce the penalty for an unsuccessful one. Reducing that penalty to balance out the reward is what I’m proposing they should do.

I think boost resistances would be a bad idea, like imagine a thor with 50% resistance to distraction :joy:

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knowing how much ludia likes thor, I wouldn’t be surprised to see it get some more random resistances in the next update.

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I remember the groan of watching my dino miss on a low hp indo or monomimus, but I also did the same to opponents as well. Moves like evasive stance were true gambles. To not do damage for one round in the hopes I make it to the next one. I think with the counters out there now, I wouldn’t mind facing that situation. however, If taking damage on a successful dodge is necessary, then perhaps the percentage should of damage received can be tiered like the percent dodge chance. 50% chance to dodge 50% damage, 75% chance to dodge 75% damage, 66% chance to dodge 66% damage, 100% dodge for 100% damage. This would only allow moves like sidestep or swap in dodge to actually be useful for something more than a non-damage speed up move. A hp buff to cunnings would help, but I think they were intended to be glass canons, that rely on damage reduction and nimble dexterity to compensate for the lack of hp. However, with the amount of cleansing/definite hits out there and the constant damage taken every turn even with successful evasion, they are rendered almost completely useless.

Boosts aren’t going away unfortunately. I would rather see a much lower fixed cap on boosts of something 6-6-6 or 5-5-5 so that you can boost but not to a silly amount like we’re seeing.

Definitely not. That would be a massive game changer and not in a good way. I can imagine how some players might abuse that and the Arena would get awful for it.

[quote=“SmokeyHowler, post:1, topic:204079”]
3. Evasive moves if successful dodge take no damage. Tier the dodge percent chance based on the move. As long as cunning creatures can always take damage, they will never be able to compete, even with fierce creatures.

    1. Resilient strike and maybe Impact lose the definite hit. Keep the slowing effect to get in front of a cunning creature but don’t guarantee the hit. Resilient Rampage keeps this effect. [/quote]

Dodge needs to be like it used to be with a successful dodge preventing all damage. But you know that dodge chances would drop and dodge based creatures would go back to being undesirable again.

Resilient needs to stop with the nullify of dodge effects. It’s a good idea to have a counter to dodge but everyone plays them so much that dodge based creatures are now all but pointless. Keep some creatures with nullify but reign in the anti-dodge abilities.

Yes. This. :arrow_double_up: I’ve been saying this for a long long time. It would help balance out the over-abundance of swappers.