Using Elo instead of the trophy system

I think it is safe to say that the majority of us are not all that happy with the matchmaking system that JWA uses presently. In the past I have suggested on these forums that perhaps the way to go is to take a look at the Elo system most famously used in the Chess community.

If this was implemented it would require a complete reset where everyone would go down to a 1000 point reset. People play. The better plays / stronger teams rise quickly as they take a lead and then face players of equivalent ability. After a few weeks it would settle down and we would have a much more balanced method of matchmaking. You wouldn’t have the inappropriate match up’s that we do presently and it would still benefit Ludia because boost sales would remain relevant for those players who want to climb up the ratings system. Casual players and those who wish to remain unboosted could do so and still get fair battles.

The video below :arrow_double_down: was the best I could find to explain how the system works a bit better than I ever could.

I think it is a good idea but off the top of my head I can think of two difficulties.

  1. You will get players who want to climb the ratings ladder but don’t want to boost and will probably grumble that they don’t get anywhere. If the Elo system was used this couldn’t be helped.

  2. How do you handle tournament rewards and Arena levels, which currently are based on your trophy count? I think the Elo rating could still work for the rewards but which Arena you are in (and any benefits of being in such) would need a ponder.

I throw the idea out for discussion.

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Start at 3:25, sounds like they’re already using it.

Snarkiness aside, this sounds like a great idea.

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I certainly do think that the trophy system is based somewhat on the Elo system but not enough. If it was, then I don’t think we would have anywhere near the matchmaking problems that we do. If the Elo system was used for ratings the higher level teams and those with boosted creatures would be much further up the ladder as it were. Things would be balanced out. As the gentleman in the video says at one point, if you want to continue rising you need to face equal or better opponents, so there would not be a desire to crush weaker opponents with their boosted teams.

The current system compares team strength for the most part until Aviary or just after, at which point it is just down to trophy count. That just acts as a unnatural barrier to prevent players progressing as easily. A true Elo system would allow players to face appropriate opponents throughout their Arena lifetime.

Hopefully that makes sense and I’m not just going round in circles.

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The only issue I see with this is that the elo system is based off of skill alone, not having something to account for team levels/strength, which is a big aspect in jwa. Wouldn’t this mean a player with level 30 dinos with a win/loss ratio of 1.2 would be matched against a level 10 player with the same win/loss ratio? Unless I’m understanding something incorrectly.

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I think Elo system is not good for JWA. I believe we had some kind of Elo system when we had that mess in arena. In JWA is impossible to find equal opponents constantly. Every player has it’s own style of play and differently progress with creating and lvling creatures. At one point everyone has unbalanced team with few creatures 3-4 lvls higher than rest of the team.

So either we get back the mess we had when lower lvl boosted teams will be ranked higher than full lvl 30 boosted teams, cause both will face only opponents with similar teams.

Or there will be constant problems finding opponents.

Trophy system isn’t bad, but would need some adjustments.

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In theory, yes, because it doesn’t (and shouldn’t) look at player level. The player with the team of level 30’s is most likely going to defeat the player with lower level dinosaurs. That player climbs up the rating, eventually reaching the plateau where they should be 50/50.

Yes but the levels are not all that relevant as it comes down to the win/loss ratio which should balance out over time.

The concern you have should not happen consistently because of this. However, as new players come in and level up you will have match up’s like this as they level and/or boost their dinosaurs but again, they should climb the ladder over time. Everyone should plateau into their respective positions and face appropriate opponents. There would be no reason to lose matches purposefully to drop like we have seen in the past.

i agree that the Elo system alone might not work for JWA.

what Really needs to be done first and foremost, if fixing the win/ loss ratio. it is seriously out of balance. Tweak that first and see how bad the arena is in a week or two before fixing something else. doing too much at once may create more problems, or not fix anything at all.

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Agree, levels are not all, boosts are the other big part.
Most complaints I see here on forum are about lvls of opponents creatures. I believe in current system with boosts is impossible to find equal opponents. Same lvl teams with different boosts allocation can also result in one team sweeping other team 3-0 90% of time. Therefore I believe that only ELO system won’t work for JWA. Could be used for base to build on it.

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Win/loss ratio at the end is still around 50%. Problem is that there are too many winning/losing streaks. Shouldn’t be so many extremes as there are now. Most likely thats due to differences in creature lvls and used or available boosts.

i was more or less talking about how many trophies you get/ loose for a win/ loss. It’s really weird what you gain vs what you loose for fighting similar teams.

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Oh yeah, thats another problem of current system.

More restrictions will simply make it harder to find a match. This game doesnt have enough players for more restrictions and Ludia knows this. Which is why match making feels worse. And Ludia is gonna do everything they can to make pop issues seem to not exist. So they use things like ai switch and multiple physical locations for the same sanctuaries.

More restrictions means more matches where someone gets to push the ai button. That hurts boost sales cause why boost when your not gonna get real opponent anyway.

Ludia has painted themselves into a corner as far as match making goes… to many variables and to few players to get consistently fair match making

We got 177k players who have played a match so far this season… now consider outside of “peak” times which what is peak time for this game cause those 177k are spread globally. Most times id suspect we have a quarter of that pop playing arena matches most of the times. Then we have to spread that population out over 6k+ trophies. Added more match making restrictions compounds this more.

The only real solution to this problem is to get the player base less spread out…you can condense arenas but thats not a good solution even though they never should have added 2k trophies worth of arenas back when they added 3 after avairy.

Lessening the dna grind is about the only good solution… let boosts be the only variable. This player base isnt growing and arena numbers have dropped over the last 4 seasons meaning the playerbase numbers are gonna be magically replaced with Ludias normal status quo with some new dinos. They need something drastic or match making will keep getting worse.

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The ELO system will not work for 1 reason: RNG.

I dun just mean your stun/crit fails.to land or dodge works/fails. The team selected plays a part.too. In chess, both players start with the same pieces in the same order mirrored. In JWA you get 4 out of your 8 in a random order. So that means swap moves are.affected by creature order in terms of startegic value. The equivalent would be having random piece configurations every match. So a player could have 6 pawns and 4 bishops in 1 match and 5 queens/2 kings the next.

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Also in chess you can only win or lose. Obviously everybody starting a game of chess does it for the win. This used to be the case in JWA as well until Boosts were added to the PvP incubators. Now many settle for a lower score just so they can grind as many boosts as possible.