Ludia Forums

Who should have the immunity?

Immune to decel

Who must not:
°Strong Speedster wich aren’t antitank

Who can:
°Slow Chompers
°Weak spedsters
°Tank
°Deceleretors speedster(magaliceros)
°Counter attacker Antitank legendary+ (gripo, tarkus)

Who must:
°Bleeders
°Speedsters antitank(Alloraptor)
°Speed chomper

Immune to stun:

Who must not:
°Chompers
°Strong Counter attacker

Who can:
°Weak creatures
°Medium-low damage(1000-1300) and medium-high hp(4000-5000) creatures
°Speedsters with immune to stun DNA

Who must:
°High Hp Tanks
°High armor tanks(40%+)
-This because tank must to absorbed more damage, and immune to stun help they to do this.

Immune to distraction:

Who must not:
°Chomper

Who can:
°Creatures with superiority move or purification impact in genetical map.
°Speedster
°Counter attacker
°Weak creatures

Who must:
°Tank wthout superioty move

Immune to DoT:

Who must not:
°High hp tank, 4800+ without armor and 4500+ with medium armor (excluding maxima becouse is genetic full immune)

Who can:
°Dino with regeneration and run
°High armor with low hp creatures
°Bleeders
°Weak creatures

What do you think it?

5 Likes

Your 100% right!

I think immune to bleed should not exist, because when you’re wounded you will most likely bleed

4 Likes

the only thing i have to say to that is a shell cannot bleed. it is bone. i’m all for the turtles and maybe some of their hybrids having immune to bleed. but like mammoth and rhino probably shouldn’t have it.

12 Likes

Never understood why both those got immune to bleed, shaggy fur designed for keeping out the cold ain’t gonna stop creatures like spino from shredding their hides.

8 Likes

I agree with the turtles being immune. I think the reason bleed is on the decline is that there are so many creatures that are very good and are also immune to DoT. I feel some creatures should lose this immunity like entelemoth and mammolania

5 Likes

What about swaps and vulnerability?

J/K

Decelleration
Comments

  • Bleeders don’t need immunity to decell, nor counter-attackers (it actually disadvantages them)

Who should not

  • Speedsters in general should probably not be immune to decelleration. It eliminates their natural counter (slowing tanks). If a speedster is immune to decelleration, there are three ways you can take it.
    #1: They shouldn’t be that fast (i.e. 126-128) so they are naturally countered by other speedsters (Alloraptor)
    #2: They should be paper-thin so they run the risk of being ‘chomped’ first turn (Erlikospyx)
    #3: They have an explicit weakness (shields for Erlidom and no distraction moves).

Who should

  • Low-health chompers
    Think the immune chompers like Dimetrodon, Tryo, Ophia etc. These dinos rely on being faster than tanks to be able to 2-shot them.

Personal Preference

  • Sauropods.
    I’ve always thought that the speed-controlling sauropods should be immune to decelleration (mostly because they are so slow to begin with and I don’t see how you stop a charging sauropod).

Stun
Comments

  • This immunity is a bit hard to gauge for me as it isn’t quite as ‘meta-defining’ as others. The move that causes the biggest issue here is ‘Instant Charge’, though that is almost more because it is instant than anything. I feel like this is at best niche for tweaking certain matchups.

Who should not

  • Not convinced of any restrictions

Who should

  • Not convinced of any restrictions

Personal Preferences

  • I find the hadrosaurs having this makes them a bit more interesting than they would otherwise be. Things like pachy, tenonto etc.

Distraction
Comments

  • This is more in line with serious consideration. So, one of the pairings for speedsters is them having distraction moves. So I agree that in general Chompers having distraction moves is problematic.

Who should not

  • Health Chompers (T-Rex & Kin)
    These dinos are designed to be able to take 2 medium hits and potentially go a third. Being immune to distraction utterly destroys one of their ‘natural counters’. Their only real counter at this point would be ‘dodging bleeders’ (Spinoconstrictor has a role).
  • Definite wielders
    Having definite moves and immune to distraction is basically bad design. I suppose if your dinosaur were hamstrung by some other issue (very low speed, low health etc) it could be possible but these two should almost never meet.

Who should

  • Charge up dinos.
    If you are by nature a 2-move dino (RTC) then being vulnerable to distraction basically breaks you. This is why Baryonyx is so niche, it just can’t deal with distracting speedsters.
  • Low health chompers
    Again, a speedster should be able to drop you in 2 turns so no problem finding a counter.
  • Anti-speedster speedsters
    Dinos designed to take down speedsters. Should have no bleed or armour piercing or defence shattering moves. A good example of a dino that breaks this logic is Procerat. Shouldn’t have null strike, just distraction or precise or evasive instead. Without nullstrike anything with a short-defence etc would just break Procerat over its knee (which makes sense).

Bleed
Comments

  • So I think there is a place for the turtle and its immunity. Basically, this dino says, my counter is chompers. Beyond that, there really should only be a few immune to DOT placed as niche dinos like immunity to stun.

Who should not

  • Health Tanks
    This shouldn’t need an explanation. I’m looking at you Ardentis & Gemini. That said, if you were going to go this route, then there would have to be corresponding changes to make them more niche (i.e. Erlidom-like). Maybe no shield breaking moves, no distraction moves, no dodge breaking moves etc, low damage.
  • Medium Armour Tanks
    Unless they have low health or damage output, this breaks the dynamics of the game.

Who should

  • Heavy Armour Tanks
    With correspondingly low health. Turtle is fine. It should be chomper bait.
  • Stygidaryx
    Coz Stygidaryx
3 Likes

Thank you.
Now I added adrosauridae, pachy and smilonceph, i forgot they, idem for bary.
I’ve created this post for discuss on strongest partial immunity, and vulnerability and swap aren’t too meta relevant.
For counter attacker I mean to counter attacker like carno, they can but they must not, maybe is better no for grybo, but not for carno.
The bleeder must be immune to decel becouse they must to beat tank, maybe no suchotator, but the other…
For the tank i will do another posts, incluse unique tank(max, gemini, xernias).
With this little spoiler, for next post, i think maxima must be full immune for his genetical map, but with this stats:
Hp=5450/5550
Damage=1000
Speed=108
Crits=30%
Armor=15%
Move set=
Definite strike
Shielded decelereting impact(50% shield for 1 turn, 1,5 dmg, decel opponet for 2 turn, cooldown 1)
Defense shattering rampage
Instant invincibility
Full Immune

So I like the idea of an immune Sauropod. Having 2 seems silly to me. So if I were to keep Ardentis (and Ardonto) as full immune with a huge health-pool, there is only really a few things you could do to fix it.

  • Remove their shield busting
  • Remove their dodge-busting
  • Remove their speed control

The last one is a bit controversial but could work.

At 5500 HP, the opponent needs 1575 base damage (assuming 3.5 multiplier (1.5, 2.0) to two-shot a 5500 HP sauropod. If the Ardont has damage sufficient to two-shot in return, it has a clear set of counters (mega damage dealers) and a clear set of victims (anything that can’t muster the damage in two turns). You could even give it Definite Rampage… as long as it doesn’t have a slow. With Instant shield against 1.5/2.0 dinos which can’t shatter you could also play mind-games.

Just a thought.

The original idea for ardentis and to a lesser extent ardonto was to deal with Dodgers. Wouldn’t a decrease in attack limit their effectiveness against anything that doesn’t rely on evasion to survive?

The two Tower and Testacornibus reworking New post.

If they are designed to deal with Dodgers, why do they have defense shattering moves? Shouldn’t they just have Nullifying/Precise moves? As currently implemented, they kind of counter everything.

Upon release maxima had definite rampage to deal with Dodgers and and to help maxima differentiate itself and act as an upgrade from ardonto. Both these creatures inherited shield shattering from secodontosaurus.

1 Like

I did come up with a move specifically for Maxima in a previous post.
It’s Armour-piercing Rampage, but it also removes Evasion, as opposed to bypassing it.
Ardonto could get APR.

I get this. The moves of Ardentis are based on its components (well really just Ardonto now as it just a clone).

The point I’m making is about where it sits in the meta. Currently:
Immune to bleed: Counters all bleeding moves
Decelerating Impact: Counters fast creatures not immune to deceleration
Definite Strike: Counters dodgers
Defense Shattering Rampage: Counters Tanks (also immune to decel)

As designed it seems to counter everything. The things that beat it just seem to be powerhouse dinos (Gemini, Tryko etc) and a very specific Alloraptor (immune to decel + Rending).

Things this versatile tend to be a bit weak on the stat side of things (which Ardentis is not). If it lost its ability to deal with one of these threats (dodgers, shields or faster dinos) then its role would become more clear.

1 Like

Yeah it’s attack stat was and still is too high for an immune tank, had it received a damage reduction instead of hp it might’ve been able to keep it original move set.

1 Like