the only thing i have to say to that is a shell cannot bleed. it is bone. i’m all for the turtles and maybe some of their hybrids having immune to bleed. but like mammoth and rhino probably shouldn’t have it.
Never understood why both those got immune to bleed, shaggy fur designed for keeping out the cold ain’t gonna stop creatures like spino from shredding their hides.
I agree with the turtles being immune. I think the reason bleed is on the decline is that there are so many creatures that are very good and are also immune to DoT. I feel some creatures should lose this immunity like entelemoth and mammolania
Bleeders don’t need immunity to decell, nor counter-attackers (it actually disadvantages them)
Who should not
Speedsters in general should probably not be immune to decelleration. It eliminates their natural counter (slowing tanks). If a speedster is immune to decelleration, there are three ways you can take it. #1: They shouldn’t be that fast (i.e. 126-128) so they are naturally countered by other speedsters (Alloraptor) #2: They should be paper-thin so they run the risk of being ‘chomped’ first turn (Erlikospyx) #3: They have an explicit weakness (shields for Erlidom and no distraction moves).
Who should
Low-health chompers
Think the immune chompers like Dimetrodon, Tryo, Ophia etc. These dinos rely on being faster than tanks to be able to 2-shot them.
Personal Preference
Sauropods.
I’ve always thought that the speed-controlling sauropods should be immune to decelleration (mostly because they are so slow to begin with and I don’t see how you stop a charging sauropod).
Stun Comments
This immunity is a bit hard to gauge for me as it isn’t quite as ‘meta-defining’ as others. The move that causes the biggest issue here is ‘Instant Charge’, though that is almost more because it is instant than anything. I feel like this is at best niche for tweaking certain matchups.
Who should not
Not convinced of any restrictions
Who should
Not convinced of any restrictions
Personal Preferences
I find the hadrosaurs having this makes them a bit more interesting than they would otherwise be. Things like pachy, tenonto etc.
Distraction Comments
This is more in line with serious consideration. So, one of the pairings for speedsters is them having distraction moves. So I agree that in general Chompers having distraction moves is problematic.
Who should not
Health Chompers (T-Rex & Kin)
These dinos are designed to be able to take 2 medium hits and potentially go a third. Being immune to distraction utterly destroys one of their ‘natural counters’. Their only real counter at this point would be ‘dodging bleeders’ (Spinoconstrictor has a role).
Definite wielders
Having definite moves and immune to distraction is basically bad design. I suppose if your dinosaur were hamstrung by some other issue (very low speed, low health etc) it could be possible but these two should almost never meet.
Who should
Charge up dinos.
If you are by nature a 2-move dino (RTC) then being vulnerable to distraction basically breaks you. This is why Baryonyx is so niche, it just can’t deal with distracting speedsters.
Low health chompers
Again, a speedster should be able to drop you in 2 turns so no problem finding a counter.
Anti-speedster speedsters
Dinos designed to take down speedsters. Should have no bleed or armour piercing or defence shattering moves. A good example of a dino that breaks this logic is Procerat. Shouldn’t have null strike, just distraction or precise or evasive instead. Without nullstrike anything with a short-defence etc would just break Procerat over its knee (which makes sense).
Bleed Comments
So I think there is a place for the turtle and its immunity. Basically, this dino says, my counter is chompers. Beyond that, there really should only be a few immune to DOT placed as niche dinos like immunity to stun.
Who should not
Health Tanks
This shouldn’t need an explanation. I’m looking at you Ardentis & Gemini. That said, if you were going to go this route, then there would have to be corresponding changes to make them more niche (i.e. Erlidom-like). Maybe no shield breaking moves, no distraction moves, no dodge breaking moves etc, low damage.
Medium Armour Tanks
Unless they have low health or damage output, this breaks the dynamics of the game.
Who should
Heavy Armour Tanks
With correspondingly low health. Turtle is fine. It should be chomper bait.
Thank you.
Now I added adrosauridae, pachy and smilonceph, i forgot they, idem for bary.
I’ve created this post for discuss on strongest partial immunity, and vulnerability and swap aren’t too meta relevant.
For counter attacker I mean to counter attacker like carno, they can but they must not, maybe is better no for grybo, but not for carno.
The bleeder must be immune to decel becouse they must to beat tank, maybe no suchotator, but the other…
For the tank i will do another posts, incluse unique tank(max, gemini, xernias).
With this little spoiler, for next post, i think maxima must be full immune for his genetical map, but with this stats:
Hp=5450/5550
Damage=1000
Speed=108
Crits=30%
Armor=15% Move set=
Definite strike Shielded decelereting impact(50% shield for 1 turn, 1,5 dmg, decel opponet for 2 turn, cooldown 1)
Defense shattering rampage
Instant invincibility
Full Immune
So I like the idea of an immune Sauropod. Having 2 seems silly to me. So if I were to keep Ardentis (and Ardonto) as full immune with a huge health-pool, there is only really a few things you could do to fix it.
Remove their shield busting
Remove their dodge-busting
Remove their speed control
The last one is a bit controversial but could work.
At 5500 HP, the opponent needs 1575 base damage (assuming 3.5 multiplier (1.5, 2.0) to two-shot a 5500 HP sauropod. If the Ardont has damage sufficient to two-shot in return, it has a clear set of counters (mega damage dealers) and a clear set of victims (anything that can’t muster the damage in two turns). You could even give it Definite Rampage… as long as it doesn’t have a slow. With Instant shield against 1.5/2.0 dinos which can’t shatter you could also play mind-games.
The original idea for ardentis and to a lesser extent ardonto was to deal with Dodgers. Wouldn’t a decrease in attack limit their effectiveness against anything that doesn’t rely on evasion to survive?
If they are designed to deal with Dodgers, why do they have defense shattering moves? Shouldn’t they just have Nullifying/Precise moves? As currently implemented, they kind of counter everything.
Upon release maxima had definite rampage to deal with Dodgers and and to help maxima differentiate itself and act as an upgrade from ardonto. Both these creatures inherited shield shattering from secodontosaurus.
I did come up with a move specifically for Maxima in a previous post.
It’s Armour-piercing Rampage, but it also removes Evasion, as opposed to bypassing it.
Ardonto could get APR.
I get this. The moves of Ardentis are based on its components (well really just Ardonto now as it just a clone).
The point I’m making is about where it sits in the meta. Currently:
Immune to bleed: Counters all bleeding moves
Decelerating Impact: Counters fast creatures not immune to deceleration
Definite Strike: Counters dodgers
Defense Shattering Rampage: Counters Tanks (also immune to decel)
As designed it seems to counter everything. The things that beat it just seem to be powerhouse dinos (Gemini, Tryko etc) and a very specific Alloraptor (immune to decel + Rending).
Things this versatile tend to be a bit weak on the stat side of things (which Ardentis is not). If it lost its ability to deal with one of these threats (dodgers, shields or faster dinos) then its role would become more clear.
Yeah it’s attack stat was and still is too high for an immune tank, had it received a damage reduction instead of hp it might’ve been able to keep it original move set.