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Why Evasive Moves Should Be Buffed and More Fierce Creatures Should be Introduced

Many players have noticed that cunning creatures got the short end of the stick. Resilient creatures tear right through them, stripping them down and leaving them vulnerable. This is however by design, and I believe it is no gross miscalculation; Cunning creatures need to have a weakness. But cunning creatures also need a strength. As it stands cunning creatures are meant to take down fierce creatures, but a resilient or fierce creature can do the same task just as well (if not better). For this reason cunning creatures should be further enhanced to fill their niche. I propose that evasive moves dodge 100% of damage. This enhancement allows for creatures like Erlidominous and Monomimus to more easily dispatch the likes Thoradolosaur, while still leaving them vulnerable to resilient creatures. The many creatures with resilient attacks will keep these evasive moves in check. It should also be noted that more fierce creatures should be introduced to keep the tanks in check. I am sure Mortem Rex will be a welcomed addition to many strike teams along side Thoradolosaur to take down the abundance of tanky nuisances in the higher arenas, but more choices to allow for variety would be appreciated. Creatures like Ardentismaxima and Diorajasaur are allowed to flaunt their shields with relative comfort because of the mass exodus of nullification and the confiscation of defense shattering capabilities from some creatures. To combat this I propose the addition of at least one more chomper similar to Thoradolosaur be introduced. I know I’m not the only one who wants to see a big bite taken out of these tanks.

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I don’t think Evasion should be buffed. We’ve been to the 100% before and it was crap. I think making it like that again would only create more disparity between some creatures. It’s Resilient that should be nerfed. It cleanses distraction, slows down and removes dodges. I’d say it should do only two of those things… Since we already have slow + cleanse distract with Superiority Strike, I’d say the other two combos.

Either slow + remove evasion, or cleanse distract + remove evasion, which would be the better option since it’s supposed to counter distracion… but with fewer creatures having it so it doesn’t make evasion useless, or making it just go trough evasion without removing it (like a precise move)

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I think 100% evasion would work now because the arena is vastly different. Creatures are typecast now. If by “create more disparity between some creatures” you mean that certain creatures will be viewed as better, I agree. Some creatures do need to get better for arena viability. I like your Idea to nerf resilient attacks. I feel slowing moves being their own thing because speed control is very powerful. I don’t think creatures should lose their resilient attacks though. It would defeat the purpose of the new typecast rework.

The typecast is ridiculous the way it is now so I don’t mind defeating its purpose… But I didn’t said they all should lose it, just some of them. As I said in the last tournament, I “accidentally” made a team with 6 of the 8 member having Resilient moves without even trying. That’s how many creatures have this thing… Changing Resilient properly and with less things having it would be enough to fix the evasion problem.

And what I mean by disparity is when one creature is so much better than others, that it beats them too easily… It’s whats happening with almost everything weak against Resilent moves… just as dodging 100% damage would make their users beat anything that can’t go through evasion too easily, without solving the problem of Resilient users.

To sum up, making dodgers beat an opponent more easily just as they are easily beaten.by their counters would just be making things worse. That feeling of not being able to do anything against an opponent. The feeling we get when Maxima comes to the field and you don’t have anything to deal with it selected… the feeling we got in the past when evasion was 100% and an Indoraptor dodged 3 times in a row. That feeling of powerlessness. That’s what ruins battles in this game the most.

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My suggestions:

  1. Remove “precise” from all “superiority” abilities but leave resilient alone.
  2. Give most dodgers immunity to deceleration again. They would still be countered by tanks, just slightly worse
  3. Give us more fierce creatures for dodgers to counter. The sad truth is dodgers are made to counter fierce, but there aren’t many fierce in endgame. Tryko, Tenrex and Magna can remove dodge. Imo they shouldn’t. Exchange Tryko and Tenrex’s Resilient moves for Superiority ones (without precise) and Magna for something else. Idk what exactly.

But leave tanks alone! They were trash since 1.5! Let them finally be strong, I’ve been waiting a long time for this

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My thoughts:

Yes they should remove precise from all “superiority” abilitys, and I would throw in shielded decelerating strike and devestation too for good measure. The thing with resilient strike is that dodge removal is extremely powerful, given the long cooldowns on the multi-turn dodging moves. So I would either make it precise instead, or leave superiority strike as precise and switch most resilient strikes with this superiority strike. So tanks can hit through dodge with some moves, but not remove it, and the dodgers have a chance of blocking their more powerful moves. They still get hard countered by tanks, but they have more of a chance. But if they must leave resilient alone, it should be much rarer given how strong it is, and not a basic ability given to most of the creatures in the game.

I would actually leave dodgers vulnerable to deceleration. For one, deceleration isn’t designed to counter anything else. Most fierce creatures are either designed to work even at a speed disadvantage or are immune to deceleration, and in a tank-on-tank battle both parties have these moves, so it’s a speed stalemate. If they made resilient attacks precise, then deceleration should remain as a counter for dodgers, and it’s a surprisingly effective one. I used to counter indo g2 with utarinex’s decelerating strike before the update dropped. So resilients would still be able to hit through dodge and keep dodgers at a speed disadvantage - I think thats pretty good. But then if they try to follow up with a stronger move (like Maximas DSR), the dodge is still in place to help with that. Tanks win through disadvantage, not raw damage, and I think retooling resilient moves this way moves them closer to that.

You actually hit on something very important here. I actually wouldn’t touch the movesets of the three you talk about here, only changing the moves themselves as I’ve described. Tryko has two resilients in it’s DNA and Tenrex has a hadrosaur, so it makes sense that both have access to resilient moves (however, it might be a good idea to change hadrosaurs resilient moves to superiority ones, and change tenrex along with them). And let Magnapyritor keep nullifing impact, since nullify is far less common now (the nullifying effect is only on ten creatures in the entire game!).

But it’s important to note the lack of fierce creatures in the meta. This has two important implications. The first is that cunning creatures have nothing to counter, as you’ve pointed out. The second is that it means that resilients have no relevant counters, which I think is contributing to their current strength. Even making fierce creatures more relevant in the meta would go a long way towards bringing resilients into line, without actually changing them at all.

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I see. I was under the impression that going full rock, paper scissors was the answer. Since it can potentially ruin a battle for the player though, it’s best not buff dodge. Instead Nerf resilience like you previously said. Thank you for keeping the player in mind.

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I feel neither of those work well. Resilient moves need to slow or else the cunning creature will get one more move off that could make It win against it’s supposed counter. And likewise It also needs to remove distraction or It won’t be countering cunning creatures. Resilient moves need to slow and cleanse distraction.
I think just losing the remove dodge and being only precise is enough to nerf the moves, next is just redistribution like you said yourself.

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Magna is more of a Jack of all trades and is already countered by erlidom and orion, so it’s fine as It is. Tenrex indeed should just get superiority strike back without precise. Now Tryko i think should keep the counter as It is and just lose the ability to remove distraction by trading resilient impact for decelerating or slowing impact. Tryko should be able to slow opponents it’s just the distraction cleansing that breaks It.

Other things that could help with the issue:

  1. a buff to ferocious creatures like the long legged crocs and the irritator and baryonyx line as well as the introduction of endgame ferocious creatures that are immune to decel. An alloraptor + ferocious creature hybrid would be a great option.
  2. Buff Thor. Yes, it’s been nerfed too hard and It wasn’t great to begin with. I would suggest something like:
    4350 HP
    1800 damage
    15% armor
    107 speed
    40% crit
    Fierce strike
    Group DSI
    DSR
    Instant charge

I know the overboosted thors are annoying, i know cause I’m unboosted right now. But Thor deserves to be viable on an equal footing.

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There’s another option that everyone seems to be missing.
Keep the effects the same, but move them around. Have resilient moves remove evasion after dealing damage.

I’m not saying it’s the best option, I’m just saying that no one’s even considering it.

I think the reason this wouldn’t quite work is that removing the dodge at any point is still bad. Taking Maxima as an example, I would rather take full damage from resilient strike but dodge DSR later instead of dodging resilient strike but as a consequence having to take full damage from DSR. Taking a full hit from resilient moves is OK imo, but the dodge removal at any point opens up the possibility for a creatures other moves becoming too strong in combination.

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Personally I think that the Resilient Strikes removing dodge effects was the wrong way to go. We already have creatures with nullify abilities for that role. Now, dodge based creatures feel almost pointless. Removing dodge effects should be left to nullify in my opinion.

Those are good points, but nullifing abilities are much rarer in the game now - only ten creatures have them! I think they did that because these were mostly found on cunning creatures, so they wanted resilient creatures to counter cunning creatures instead of having them be the only counters to themselves.

Isn’t that the point though? Isn’t that Maxima’s role? And in any case, at least Maxima isn’t 2-hit KOing whatever Dodger it was up against.

If you take the example of a creature like Stegodeus, which relies on a resilient move to deal most of its damage, this change would allow it to counter evasion without making it useless. Creatures like Trykosaurus and Diorajasaur would also be affected. They’d be able to remove evasion without destroying the opponent to the degree they do now.

That is true that this is it’s role, but I still think the dodge removal is unnecessary, it just needs to be precise. Stegodeus and Dio have resilient rampage, and it would still be able to use it for full damage if it was precise. Tryko would still be very strong even if they removed evasion after doing damage. All they have to do is use resilient impact first, taking a loss on damage but removing dodge and slowing their opponent. Then they hit them with DSR to finish them off. Don’t forget that dodgers tend to have very low health, so it is possible for some of the stronger resilient users like Maxima and Tryko to finish them in two hits, especially with boosts. So if resilient was precise instead, it wouldn’t be able to do this. Right now if you catch a dodger with one of these creatures on turn one, the dodger is going to just die unless they switch, but whatever they switch to is going to be at a disadvantage. So more often than not they just die.

Actually most if not all Dodgers that might encounter a Trykosaurus have enough health (3600-3900) to survive a dodged Impact+full Rampage. It’s the same with Maxima.

Having resilient moves be precise without deceleration only works if the user can spam the move, otherwise the Dodger can just apply evasion/Distraction again and keep dealing damage.

I think resilient moves just don’t need to exist. All the tanks need (some of them anyway) are precise/evasion-removing variants of regular moves. The combination of cleansing distraction and deceleration already exists, so you can keep that as it is. Adding precision/evasion removal to other more one-dimensional abilities makes more sense than bunching all 3 effects together.

For example, giving Stegodeus Precise Rampage. Or Ardentismaxima Precise Decelerating Impact. Stuff like that.

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The thing is, this either can’t be done or gives no advantage. Evasive stance has a long cooldown of three turns, so you probably won’t be able to reapply it after it is removed. Sidestep can be used every turn, but does no damage in itself, so if you keep slowing them every turn they can’t attack. Though admittedly it does seem to encourage spamming resilient attacks. But doesn’t that happen already with the way resilient moves are designed now?

I do really like the idea of just having precise versions of regular moves though. Resilient attacks just do so much right now, so this would definitely help them counter dodge users without being too strong.

Right now Ludia has a couple of options so as to not make tanks irrelevant again nor dodgers.

    1. SS/SV arent Precise Moves and Resilient Moves stay the same
    1. Resilient Moves are erased and SS/SV stay Precise Attacks
    1. Both Resilient and SS/SV are Precise Moves, with the change of Resilient Moves not cleansing Distraction

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Preferably Im leaning towards the 1st Choice, tho I dont mind the 2nd Option. Though, no matter what Ludia picks, Evasive Stance should be reverted back to its original 75% Chance, all (excluding Sidestep) Evasive Mechanics now dodge 75% of damage (instead of 66%), and last but not the least, distribute the Resilient Moves with logic. Cunning, Fierce and Resilient moves arent the only mechanics in the game, some should get it, but dont give it to all the creatures. Atleast let creatures have a Distracting Move or a Null. Move. Imo, those multitasking moves should be reserved for hybrids

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